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  • 14
    Thailand, Cambodia and Vietnam for 3-4 weeks?

    Hi,

    I am a newbie to this website/forum, as well as a newbie to the world of travel. I had my first trip abroad at the ripe old age of 23 (I am now 28) and have well and truly caught the bug!!

    Anyway, I was wondering if anyone can make any suggestions for Itineraries for Thailand, Cambodia and Vietnam. Well mainly Thailand and Vietnam, as we are pretty much set on what we want to do in Cambodia (Angkor, Siem Reap and Phnom Penh).

    We only have the time/funds for 3 - 4 weeks, so we will be fitting in a lot in a short period, so are there any must sees for Thailand and Vietnam? We want to spend a week or so in each place? Also when would you recommend we go, we were thinking Nov/Dec 2012, or Jan 2013

    We aren't really beachy people, and aren't keen on the party lifestyle that many partake in when visiting Thailand (i.e. full moon parties/drinking etc). We are interested in the history and culture of places we visit, so interesting museums, and temples, as well as a bit of wildlife. 

    It is worth mentioning that we will be backpacking (a first for me) so any tips on must takes for this area of the world (we will be taking 30 and 35litre backpacks) will be very much appreciated.

    Thanks!!

    Emma 


    Report as inappropriate
    emmaroe1983

    3 posts | 12 responses

    Posted 29 October 11

Responses

  • 1

    That's an awful lot to try to fit in in a short space of time. I spent 2 weeks in the northern half of Vietnam and that was quite rushed. There's a lot to see in each place. If I'd seen the south that probably would've needed another week or two. My recommendation would be to either pick fewer countries, or just a couple of destinations in each. I'm usually one for packing as many places as possible into a short period, but don't overdo it.
    As for must sees - I loved Sukhothai in Thailand - it's an ancient city between Bangkok and Chiang Mai. Chiang Mai is the place where you can do treks to "traditional" tribal villages, although I'd imagine they're becoming a little less authentic. I did a fantastic day-long cookery class in the city.
    I haven't yet been to Cambodia, but imagine the places you mention are the must-sees.
    As for Vietnam, I wasn't a great fan of the place, although lots of people rave about it. I went up to Sapa in the north where the people are seriously some of the most horrible I've ever met! Rude, pushy "tribal" girls who made the trip rather unpleasant. Apparently the people in the south are much nicer. Hanoi's a big bustling city which is worth a couple of days. Hoi An is a nice little World Heritage town with some old houses and yummy food. Hue has lots of palaces. The DMZ is worth a visit if you have an interest in history. I went to a town just south of Hanoi called Ninh Binh where they have beautiful scenery nearby (an inland version of the over-rated Ha Long Bay - over-rated because it's full of polluting boats full of tourists being scammed by tour operators and scenery you can get elsewhere).
    Have you thought about Laos? Apparently the people are lovely. Up north there's jungle and trekking. In the south is a place called Champasak, a smaller version of Angkor Wat with far fewer visitors (I haven't been to Laos, but everyone raves about it).
    As for what to take - mossie repellant, malaria pills, lightweight, quick-drying clothes (light colours show less dirt!), travel wash, lightweight raincoat might be useful, sunhat.
    Not sure if there's much wildlife in the area, apart from in the sea - Koh Tao in Thailand is a great place to dive - they have whale sharks. There are some elephants in northern Thailand.
    Hope that's enough to get you started... Let me know if you need more detail. Cheers, Sophie

    Report as inappropriate
    satkinson

    56 post | 598 responses

    Posted 29 October 11
  • 2

    Hi Emma,
    I can only give some input from the Thai side but would echo Sophie in saying that is not a lot of time. I'd maybe pick on or two areas in each country and do them well.
    My wife and I landed in Bangkok and bounced straight down to Hat Yai and spent four weeks making our way backpacking back up to Bangkok, so this was effectively the Thai peninsula. We are not beach party people either. We made passage out to places like Ko Tarutao group of islands where we spent our time snorkelling and kayaking amongst the uninhabited places, sleeping on beaches and returning to Ko Lipe for provisions. We did the same around Ko Muk which at that time was well off the beaten path.
    As a contrast to the beaches we bussed inland on to Khao sok NP for more rugged forest scenery and some fabulous hut style accommodation with v friendly people willing to make local dishes for us, even going to the extent of wandering into the nearby trees to locate a banana flower for a banana flower curry one night.
    There were many other fascinating places en route, dripping with history and culture. We did drop in on Krabi and Trang, but were not that enamoured. All of it was done out of a backpack until we hit Bangkok when we splurged a bit on a fancy hotel and a few fine meals. Bangkok itself would require 4-5 days to do it justice as it is so diverse and some of the must sees are quite spread out.
    So that was just one bit of one country. We're thinking of doing the same sort of thing again soon for Laos or Cambodia.... well maybe with a bit more luxury thrown in now we're further up the hill. Christmas / NY was a great time to be there. I'm sure other people will come back with more up-to-date info, but wherever you end up, hope you enjoy it and come back on here to show and tell. Cheers, DrG

    Report as inappropriate
    DrG

    40 post | 624 responses

    Posted 29 October 11
  • 3

    Yes, to echo the above, four weeks is quite a short period of time. I'd definitely say Luang Prabang in Laos is gorgeous and a perfect place to unwind for a few days. I loved the southern half of Vietnam, especially Hoi An which is beautiful, and also had fun in Saigon and its environs. I'm not actually a huge fan of Thailand, finding it very touristy these days, though I'm sure you can get off the beaten track if you try.

    Report as inappropriate
    Julia69

    19 post | 638 responses

    Posted 29 October 11
  • 4

    I kind of thought that to do 3 countries in such a short space of time was too much. One of the main reasons I chose Thailand was that I have heard it is an easy place to travel, and I felt that it may ease me in a bit before tackling Cambodia and Vietnam, both of which are a must, I definately want to do Anghor Wat and the other temples, and have always wanted to go to Vietnam, so will definately do these.

    We want to possibly head to South America on our next jaunt, and then children after that, so not sure when we will get the oppurtunity again to get to this corner of the world! So that was why we wanted to fit as much as possible in.

    I guess we wil focus on the 2, I have looked at Laos too, but was wary about tempting 4 countries!!
     
    Thanks everyone, keep the suggestions comig for Vietnam!

    Emma

    Report as inappropriate
    emmaroe1983

    3 post | 12 responses

    Posted 30 October 11
  • 5

    I wouldn't get too intimidated by Vietnam and Cambodia - both are relatively simple to get around in. You can do reasonable justice to the two in 3-4 weeks. The conventional route would be to start in Hanoi (2-3 days is enough), then take the train down to Hue and Hoi An (couple days each). From there, either get an internal flight down to Ho Chi Minh and spent a week or so seeing the city and the south. Then cross into Cambodia for your next two weeks - the complexes at Angkor will only really take a couple of days, and you can spent the rest of the time in Phnom Penh and maybe spent a week in the surrounding country - maybe a few days around the jungles and beaches of in Sikhouanville. Then, maybe take a 5/6 hour bus ride across the border and finish off your trip with two/three days in Bangkok, then fly home from there.

    Report as inappropriate
    Sergeant_Pluck

    54 post | 780 responses

    Posted 31 October 11
  • 6

    I think you should be able to see the 'highlights' of Asia in 3-4 weeks. Do you have funds for a flight while you're out there, for example, Hanoi to Bangkok? I did that route a few years ago with Air France.

    Here's what I'd recommend.

    Thailand
    Bangkok - Grand palace, explore interesting streets
    Ayutthaya or Sukhothai (train) - Historical park with stunning temples
    Chiang Mai - can organise trekking/tribal trips from here
    (overnight train to Bangkok)
    Bangkok to Siem Reap (bus from Mo Chit station to Aranyaprathet. Taxi from border to Siem Reap approx $50)

    Cambodia
    Angkor - 2-3 days
    Phnom Penn

    Vietnam
    Bus from Phnom Penn to Ho Chi Minh City.
    Work your way north to Hanoi, by overnight sleeper trains, maybe stopping at Hoi An or Hue for a day.

    I really enjoyed Hanoi, so I recommend spending a day or so exploring the city.
    If you like your trekking and stunning views or rice terraces, I recommend taking a trip to Sapa, and perhaps doing a 3 day tour (including overnight trains from Hanoi). The tribal women can be pushy, but like anywhere else in Asia, people can be desperate to make money. For me, going to Sapa was the highlight of my trip. If you plan to go here, maybe miss out Chiang Mai (Sapa trekking is stunning).

    To save time, I'd recommend a flight from Hanoi, back to Bangkok.

    Alternatively, you could go to Thailand, see the temples at Ayuthhaya, then take a flight out to Hanoi, go to Sapa, and then work your way down - leaving Angkor as a highlight at the end of your trip.

    Report as inappropriate
    Natalya24

    5 post | 25 responses

    Posted 2 November 11
  • 7

    This just goes to show what incredibly different experiences people have! I feel that if I hadn't gone to Sapa I wouldn't have come away with such a negative feeling about the Vietnamese people - I found them far more pushy than anyone I've ever come across! And so rude. And that was just the 8 year-old girls. But hey, maybe they'd had some low sales before I arrived... Or maybe the endless rain made them tetchy!

    I'd definitely try to include Sukhothai in Thailand, if you're into temples. It's easy to do in a day and is a stop-over between Bangkok and Chiang Mai.

    Report as inappropriate
    satkinson

    56 post | 598 responses

    Posted 3 November 11
  • 8

    Satkinson, do you remember what year you went? I think it was Jan 2006 when I visited. I recently returned to Asia earlier this year, and was shocked at how much some of the places had changed in the last 5 years.

    Hanoi and Sapa were probably the highlights of Asia for me, and I keep wondering whether to go back - this time with my partner. But I do worry that it will have changed, and wont be as I remember.

    In the town of Sapa itself, I was chased a bit by hordes of girls trying to sell bracelets, but once I started the trek, it was few and far between. And the rice terraces were so stunning.

    As you say, it's amazing how different people's experiences can be. Some of my friends loved Thailand, but I didn't have such a great time there.

    Report as inappropriate
    Natalya24

    5 post | 25 responses

    Posted 3 November 11
  • 9

    I went there in March 2007. Unfortunately the weather was dreadful - rainy, cold & foggy, so we didn't do a trek (we'd wanted to climb the big mountain there - Fansipan. Plus the paddy fields were all muddy, so what we could see wasn't that pretty. It wasn't a case of us being chased so much, as the utter rudeness of the girls - they were quite horrid! (in fact we were chased by a woman and her daughter who were very sweet). I've heard that the people in the south are much nicer, and the people in Hue and Hoi An (half way down) were definitely far friendlier. Sadly not enough so to displace the memory of the Sapa girls! Not great representatives of their country (or tribes!).

    Report as inappropriate
    satkinson

    56 post | 598 responses

    Posted 3 November 11
  • 10

    Keep your wits about you in Vietnam. You will be amazed at the amount of mopeds in Hanoi etc but would be thieves use these as a getaway vehicle, sneaking up behind you then snatching your bag as they speed off. Whilst in Nha Trang, a woman was dragged into the road as she had her bag over her shoulder resulting in a broken arm. I've heard of another woman being dragged under the wheels of an oncoming lorry..........
    Befriend a cyclo driver and ask him to take you to where the locals eat - I'm sure you'll find some amazing food at amazing prices!
    I found Saigon too westernised but grab a tour through Chau Doc and Can Tho wher you will be met by a boat that will take you up the mekong, cross the border for onward transportation to Phnom Penh. Don't miss the killing fields and you can also catch a coach to Seim Reap. On the way back, try and stop at Skouz, where you can buy a tarantula for a dollar - eat the legs first but don't eat the abdomen. I ate it and found it to be very soft and squishy, to find out later that it contained eggs and excrement......

    Report as inappropriate
    Breezo

    0 post | 1 responses

    Posted 3 November 11
  • 11

    Emma, I've not been to Thailand or Cambodia, but I loved Vietnam (I went about 4 years ago). I found the people charming, though I didn't go to Sapa so can't comment on the people there. My favourite places were Hanoi and Hoi An. Hanoi is really vibrant, a great atmosphere, I loved just wandering round the markets etc. It is a challenge learning how to cross the road though!! Hoi An is much more peaceful. If you go there, there is a great cookery class at the Hai Scout cafe. I went to Halong Bay, and enjoyed the boat trip - it is beautiful, and the caves are great, but the town itself is nothing special. The citadel is interesting in Hue, and you can go on a nice boat trip up the Perfume River. The place that I liked the least was Saigon - it wasn't unpleasant, but it was more westernised than the other places I went. The Cu Chi tunnels were very interesting though. One of the highlights of Vietnam for me was the food, which I love - my advice would be to try to eat in places where there are lots of locals, rather than the "posher" places that have lots of tourists in them. We found the food in the touristy places was nowhere near as good as the more "authentic" places.
    I am sure you will love it!!

    Report as inappropriate
    hmk

    2 post | 42 responses

    Posted 4 November 11
  • 12

    Hi Emma, Ask 10 people and get at least 10 different opinions!

    Your planned time of year is good- not the main monsoon season, so just hot and humid!

    I spent a lot of time in SE Asia a few years back. Unfortunately I can't remember the names of alot of the "special" things, places, cafes I came across, so my advice is kind of generic. Yes you will be rushing, but you'll get to see old buddhist temples and ruins, the splendours of Angkor, Vietnam war relics, French colonial-Asian style, rice paddies, mountains and jungle, and some of the best food in the world. In my humble opinion, the best bits of the places you are aiming for are:

    Bangkok- the Grand Temple / Emerald Buddha; Chatuchak market; street food. And yes, you are right, Thailand is a great place to start as so many backpackers head here first. I remember having a great lunch at a random street food market for workers, somewhere around the Siam Square shopping centre, it cost like 20B, but of course very spicy!
    Ayuthaya or Sukhothai (never made it to the second)- but have great ruins: However in my opinion I'd not do either as you are going to see all the Angkor temples... Tony's place in Ayutthaya was a nice place to stay.
    Skip Chiang Mai and go on to Pai or even Mae Hong Son. Pai (Golden Hut oin the river was my favourite place to stay) is a lovely little village by the river, it's 'backpacker touristy', but a nice place to relax, learn to cook (Pai cookery school at the garden of the Glass house), can do day walks from here, hire mopeds etc. Or if you go on to MHS there's a great guy who ran a company (from the steps of the post office in 2007!) and you go with them well off the beaten track for some seriously good jungle trekking with a night in a local house. Be prepared to go waist-chest deep in the river several times on the second day, and have your guide get you to roll your trouser legs up every so often to do a leech check with his machete at stand by! Not an elephant ride or bamboo raft in sight like all the treks from Chiang Mai. It's 8 hours by winding road on local transport, but Thai used to have flights out to the airstrip there.

    Vietnam: I loved it here, true there's a bit of hustle and hassle, but it's just the way it is. And you really do just have to step out into the road to cross it, walk slowly and steadily across and the drivers will avoid you. It's well worth going to as a contrast to the rest of south East Asia- more Oriental. Also with the French influence you can get some interesting 'fusion sandwiches' involving French bread and, well, sometimes it's better not to ask... The local food markets were some of the best I remember seeing in SE Asia.
    I loved Hanoi (stay in the Old / French Quarter) with it's lake, old chinese college (can't remember the name), Bia Hoi bars (illegal homebrew pavement bars, great way to meet locals!), street stalls selling noodles but you'll feel like you're back in nursery school with the tiny plastic chairs... I felt that despite it being touristy, a few tens of dollars (30-ish US in 2006) for a few days in Halong bay on a junk / Cat Ba island was worth it. Waking up on the deck (drag your mattress from the cabin to the top deck) with the limestone islands in silhouette is an awesome experience. This makes up for the touristy caves you'll get taken to, and the surly staff you might have onboard!We also had a good group so that helped.
    I really liked Sapa too, I climbed the mountain which was fun, but generally it was a nice place to wander round, rice paddy fields ... and the Cat Cat (?) hotel/guesthouse had great views from its terrace high up. It might also be an ideal place for you to relax as by now you will have been on the road for a few weeks, in lieu of a beach place.
    Hue is good for a day: the Imperial Citadel and emperors tombs, we went out to the DMZ but it was a long day and I didn't think it worth it as much of what you "see" are places that used to be there, so how much you get out of it depends on your guide. Ours wasn't very good. If neither appeal, you could skip this.
    Hoi An is a must- beautiful town (UNESCO WHS), and you can get your very own tailormade clothes here.
    I too found Saigon to be my least favourite place, for the reasons outlined above. However if you're here for a day the Independence Palace and the War Museum (formerly known as the American War Crimes museum!) are worth seeing. there was a large market for cheap clothes should you be sick of the ones you are wearing by now. The Cu Chi tunnels are a fair trek out for what is a display of some man traps, guns and a crawl through the tunnel.. but it was of some interest.
    Kitsch Dalat in the highlands was a fun detour (including the huge concrete chicken given as a present to one girl by a besotted local!), if only to escape the summertime monsoon heat and humidity.
    Skip the south east coast, especially as you are not interested in beaches. There are better elsewhere in the region.
    I wholeheartedly agree that the food is wonderful- and it genuinely did vary from place to place (at least there was a distinct local speciaility in each region). If you were short of time, I'd recommend the northern stretch down to Hoi An. As well as the train, the buses weren't too bad, considerably cheaper than by rail back then and they used to operate a coupon-ticket system, similar to a bus pass, for the route you wanted to do.

    Cambodia- well you have mentioned most of the places I went to! I didn't get any further away from these as much of the jungle areas are off limits in monsoon season.
    Phnom Penh is a complete contrast to the north. We felt a little guilty going to S21 prison and the "Killing Fields", and walking through all the galleries, cells etc... a bit voyeuristic. But every local you spoke to wanted to know you'd been. It's a tragic, but important part of their history.
    When you get to Siem Reap there are various options for how to 'do' the temples. It all depends on whether you want a guide, or have a good book and like to explore alone... a girl I met on the way from Vietname and I hired a couple of bikes for three days (that was the length of one of the entry options) and did our own thing. this was great as we were able to spend as much time as we wanted at places, living out our Indian Jones/Lara Croft fantasies, revisiting when the rains had gone, or stopping in the shade to watch monkeys play... It also means if you hit a place as the tour buses arrived, you can always 'sit it out' with a coconut water drink at a little tea stall and wait for them to go. The children at their mother's tea stands will look after your bikes for the price of a drink when you return or a post card. From memory, what the LP guidebook said about times of day for tour groups at the larger temples was fairly accurate.

    There might be some inspiration on the webpage I did for that trip. South East Asia would be from June-October 2006:
    http://blogs.bootsnall.com/Nicks-world-tour/

    All in all, you'll have a great time. You mention that you're new to the travelling thing, well you've picked a good place to head to first. There will be lots of others around, whether you see this as a good or bad thing is entirely down to your perspective, but one great thing is that there will always be someone who has been to where you are headed next... especially at the guest houses in Bangkok. Their knowledge beats any guidebook or travel agent. Most of the things you want to do are possible independently, apart from trekking guides, the trip out to Halong Bay etc. Bus and train tickets are sometimes more easily obtained through the place you stay or a travel agent if the station is a ride out of town, the commission they charge is often worth it. Remember as well Vietnam visas need doing in advance, as you're away for a short trip this may be worth doing from home as it used to take a while to get one issued en-route. Flying a short sector may be an option as well. Reliable airlines in the region are Thai, Bangkok Air, Vietnam Airlines. Air Asia (budget based in Kuala Lumpur) were just getting a grip on the northern part of SE Asia a few years back so should offer a fairly dense route network now.



    Report as inappropriate
    nb1980

    0 post | 2 responses

    Posted 7 November 11

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